1 00:00:22,730 --> 00:00:09,100 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:30,300 --> 00:00:25,530 hello and welcome to the skeptics are an 3 00:00:34,500 --> 00:00:30,310 episode number what is it 390 Oh 400 not 4 00:00:36,090 --> 00:00:34,510 far away for the tenth of April 2016 5 00:00:38,700 --> 00:00:36,100 Richard Saunders here with you from 6 00:00:40,650 --> 00:00:38,710 Sydney Australia now before we get 7 00:00:43,590 --> 00:00:40,660 started those of you who have downloaded 8 00:00:45,869 --> 00:00:43,600 this episode on to your iDevice all your 9 00:00:49,830 --> 00:00:45,879 whatever device you have or if you're 10 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:49,840 just listening to it via the website wwc 11 00:00:55,470 --> 00:00:52,570 a petting zoo TV if you look at the 12 00:00:59,639 --> 00:00:55,480 image the image for this week's show 13 00:01:02,550 --> 00:00:59,649 it's a really good caricature of our ace 14 00:01:06,960 --> 00:01:02,560 reporter Maynard and this caricature was 15 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:06,970 done by the fabulous Celestia ward now I 16 00:01:12,389 --> 00:01:09,130 meant Celestia one of the amazing 17 00:01:15,749 --> 00:01:12,399 meetings a few years back and I was so 18 00:01:18,450 --> 00:01:15,759 impressed by her artistic talent when I 19 00:01:21,870 --> 00:01:18,460 saw some caricatures she had created 20 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:21,880 that I asked her very nicely if I might 21 00:01:26,100 --> 00:01:23,490 have one and she did one for me and 22 00:01:29,210 --> 00:01:26,110 recently she's done one form a night and 23 00:01:33,330 --> 00:01:29,220 wow it's just fantastic and may not has 24 00:01:35,820 --> 00:01:33,340 just thrilled to bits with it so if you 25 00:01:40,859 --> 00:01:35,830 want one of the best caricature artists 26 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:40,869 out there head to ww2 that's the numeral 27 00:01:47,850 --> 00:01:44,770 two two heads studio com to find out 28 00:01:50,910 --> 00:01:47,860 more and a big thank you Celestia it's 29 00:01:52,740 --> 00:01:50,920 really it's a work of art but what's 30 00:01:54,809 --> 00:01:52,750 coming up on this week show we're gonna 31 00:01:57,419 --> 00:01:54,819 kick off with may done yes may not 32 00:01:59,760 --> 00:01:57,429 himself he's going to be chatting to in 33 00:02:02,389 --> 00:01:59,770 his spooky action segment he's going to 34 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:02,399 be chatting to dr. Nik mat skier who 35 00:02:08,100 --> 00:02:05,170 just the other night gave a talk here in 36 00:02:11,130 --> 00:02:08,110 Sydney for the Sydney skeptics about the 37 00:02:13,410 --> 00:02:11,140 evolution of the anti-evolution movement 38 00:02:15,809 --> 00:02:13,420 wow what an interesting talk it was 39 00:02:18,510 --> 00:02:15,819 fascinating all about the kitzmiller 40 00:02:20,910 --> 00:02:18,520 versus Dover and how the creationists 41 00:02:23,729 --> 00:02:20,920 try to sneakily pull the wool over the 42 00:02:27,479 --> 00:02:23,739 eyes of the American public by inventing 43 00:02:30,030 --> 00:02:27,489 the really now the funked term of 44 00:02:32,910 --> 00:02:30,040 intelligent design remember that one 45 00:02:35,100 --> 00:02:32,920 we're going to find out more about why 46 00:02:39,750 --> 00:02:35,110 the nick is in australia and more about 47 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:39,760 the creationism evolution saga and a big 48 00:02:45,479 --> 00:02:41,890 shout out to our dear friend dr. Eugenie 49 00:02:48,420 --> 00:02:45,489 Scott after that year dr. Reggie reports 50 00:02:51,210 --> 00:02:48,430 now dr. Richie in the past week appeared 51 00:02:55,979 --> 00:02:51,220 on the sunrise TV show here in Australia 52 00:02:58,440 --> 00:02:55,989 a rather confounding story about parents 53 00:03:01,199 --> 00:02:58,450 who have different views on vaccinations 54 00:03:04,530 --> 00:03:01,209 one parent does not want the children 55 00:03:06,559 --> 00:03:04,540 vaccinated and one parent does and dr. 56 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:06,569 rates use on the sonrise program to 57 00:03:11,550 --> 00:03:09,850 comment on this the audio from her 58 00:03:13,470 --> 00:03:11,560 appearance coming up a little later on 59 00:03:17,580 --> 00:03:13,480 in the show then to round off the show 60 00:03:19,850 --> 00:03:17,590 the story of a Gold Coast mother who 61 00:03:25,110 --> 00:03:19,860 passed on whooping cough to her baby 62 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:25,120 after refusing vaccine and how she has 63 00:03:31,530 --> 00:03:28,330 now come to see that that was an error 64 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:31,540 and her warning to other parents and she 65 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:34,410 is one brave lady for coming out and 66 00:03:39,990 --> 00:03:36,970 saying this and warning other parents 67 00:03:43,550 --> 00:03:40,000 and you can bet that the flying monkeys 68 00:03:46,650 --> 00:03:43,560 as we call them the and eve acts crowd 69 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:46,660 descending on her in numbers now if you 70 00:03:51,539 --> 00:03:48,850 remember last week's show on last week's 71 00:03:54,030 --> 00:03:51,549 show I spoke to alex case from the para 72 00:03:55,410 --> 00:03:54,040 con Australia convention coming up next 73 00:03:58,949 --> 00:03:55,420 month into tumor in the Blue Mountains 74 00:04:01,170 --> 00:03:58,959 here near Sydney and during the week 75 00:04:03,539 --> 00:04:01,180 Maine are denied it a funny the 76 00:04:08,009 --> 00:04:03,549 promotion for the convention as I'm a 77 00:04:11,759 --> 00:04:08,019 guest speaker if you go to the website 78 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:11,769 the skeptics on TV the show notes you'll 79 00:04:16,949 --> 00:04:14,170 see a link to that promotion or if you 80 00:04:18,630 --> 00:04:16,959 go to the the facebook page of Perak on 81 00:04:20,610 --> 00:04:18,640 Australia you'll see that funny video 82 00:04:22,860 --> 00:04:20,620 too thanks may not and thanks to our 83 00:04:24,420 --> 00:04:22,870 friend Josh who was the cameraman oh now 84 00:04:26,550 --> 00:04:24,430 before we get started into the shoats 85 00:04:28,590 --> 00:04:26,560 come to my notice that our dear friend 86 00:04:30,690 --> 00:04:28,600 and reporter Heidi Robertson from the 87 00:04:33,060 --> 00:04:30,700 Northern Rivers vaccination supporters 88 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:33,070 up there in far north coast of New South 89 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:36,490 Wales has been accused of being a show 90 00:04:41,460 --> 00:04:39,210 for Big Pharma congratulations Heidi I 91 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:41,470 wonder if big farmer are sending you any 92 00:04:45,939 --> 00:04:43,370 money any checks 93 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:45,949 because I'm waiting for mine for so long 94 00:04:50,890 --> 00:04:48,770 and they never come oh well I'm going to 95 00:04:53,350 --> 00:04:50,900 run downstairs and see if I can find 96 00:04:55,570 --> 00:04:53,360 those two new kittens Henrietta and 97 00:04:59,320 --> 00:04:55,580 Maude I think they're probably fast 98 00:05:01,510 --> 00:04:59,330 asleep on the couch about now feed them 99 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:01,520 some cat food feed me some human food 100 00:05:17,970 --> 00:05:03,410 while I'm doing that I hope you enjoy 101 00:05:26,129 --> 00:05:22,380 here's my not spooky action at a 102 00:05:29,529 --> 00:05:28,239 what plays and gentlemen it's a saturday 103 00:05:30,939 --> 00:05:29,539 night and where would you be on a 104 00:05:32,649 --> 00:05:30,949 Saturday night but talking about science 105 00:05:33,849 --> 00:05:32,659 that at RSL club I don't know there's 106 00:05:35,709 --> 00:05:33,859 nowhere else I would rather be than 107 00:05:37,569 --> 00:05:35,719 talking about sighs that an RSL club on 108 00:05:39,369 --> 00:05:37,579 a Saturday night there's even a walk in 109 00:05:40,989 --> 00:05:39,379 the black forest being played downstairs 110 00:05:42,609 --> 00:05:40,999 which is the theme tune to the New World 111 00:05:44,619 --> 00:05:42,619 Order being played by a member of the 112 00:05:54,170 --> 00:05:44,629 shadowy elite on a shadowy piano which 113 00:05:54,180 --> 00:06:00,870 Oh 114 00:06:06,330 --> 00:06:02,490 yep that's the sound of the New World 115 00:06:07,770 --> 00:06:06,340 Order folks lovely but right now I've 116 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:07,780 got someone who spent a lot of time at 117 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:10,570 University working out the evolution of 118 00:06:15,330 --> 00:06:12,730 people who don't believe in evolution 119 00:06:19,550 --> 00:06:15,340 who we got here hi my name is Nick 120 00:06:23,370 --> 00:06:19,560 Matzke and I'm a postdoc at the anu and 121 00:06:25,350 --> 00:06:23,380 what was your postdoc in ah so i'm still 122 00:06:28,020 --> 00:06:25,360 doing it it's actually in evolutionary 123 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:28,030 biology and biogeography that's my main 124 00:06:32,850 --> 00:06:30,010 topic in phylogenetics the study of 125 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:32,860 evolutionary history but yeah I'm going 126 00:06:37,290 --> 00:06:34,690 to talk tonight about the evolution of 127 00:06:39,180 --> 00:06:37,300 anti evolutionism in the US can I ask 128 00:06:41,070 --> 00:06:39,190 you why you picked that for your topic 129 00:06:43,290 --> 00:06:41,080 for your doctorate and all that why did 130 00:06:45,270 --> 00:06:43,300 you pick that oh well the topic for my 131 00:06:47,730 --> 00:06:45,280 doctorate was actually biogeography it 132 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:47,740 wasn't this creationism stuff but I've 133 00:06:52,670 --> 00:06:50,050 been involved in the in the evolution 134 00:06:54,840 --> 00:06:52,680 creationism issue for over 10 years so 135 00:06:57,060 --> 00:06:54,850 so yeah I have a science side and in 136 00:06:59,520 --> 00:06:57,070 this kind of science education side so 137 00:07:01,650 --> 00:06:59,530 that's a pretty far those are fighting 138 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:01,660 words in the US as they like to say the 139 00:07:05,130 --> 00:07:03,730 creation versus evolution what stay to 140 00:07:08,070 --> 00:07:05,140 you from I take it you're not from down 141 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:08,080 south ah well I grew up in the west 142 00:07:13,010 --> 00:07:10,810 coast in Oregon where there's fewer 143 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:13,020 problems but i was born in oklahoma 144 00:07:18,090 --> 00:07:15,850 which still has fights every year about 145 00:07:19,950 --> 00:07:18,100 this issue and my dear grandmother who I 146 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:19,960 love very much is she's on the opposite 147 00:07:24,330 --> 00:07:22,330 side of this issue from me from my whole 148 00:07:27,180 --> 00:07:24,340 life so I've been exposed to it my whole 149 00:07:29,010 --> 00:07:27,190 life and so I was more aware of it than 150 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:29,020 some science people are I think when it 151 00:07:32,550 --> 00:07:30,850 started picking up there this is an 152 00:07:33,780 --> 00:07:32,560 issue I talked to with a lot of skeptics 153 00:07:35,310 --> 00:07:33,790 about what do you do at Christmas time 154 00:07:37,110 --> 00:07:35,320 when the whole families together there 155 00:07:38,790 --> 00:07:37,120 is you just don't avoid this topic or 156 00:07:42,690 --> 00:07:38,800 YouTube how do you work it out for your 157 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:42,700 family ah yeah I usually with extended 158 00:07:46,350 --> 00:07:44,770 family like my close family doesn't have 159 00:07:48,780 --> 00:07:46,360 an issue but the extended family can be 160 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:48,790 an issue so you only raise the topic if 161 00:07:53,070 --> 00:07:50,650 everyone's in the mood to really have a 162 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:53,080 discussion about it because you know you 163 00:07:56,550 --> 00:07:54,810 gotta pick your battles right so 164 00:08:00,450 --> 00:07:56,560 sometimes sometimes you can get 165 00:08:02,190 --> 00:08:00,460 surprising results but yeah I think 166 00:08:03,900 --> 00:08:02,200 family harmony is worth something so 167 00:08:05,850 --> 00:08:03,910 everyone should make their own decision 168 00:08:07,950 --> 00:08:05,860 about when the right time to to have 169 00:08:09,420 --> 00:08:07,960 these discussions is right well you've 170 00:08:10,940 --> 00:08:09,430 tracked the evolution you showed me a 171 00:08:13,980 --> 00:08:10,950 very nice flow chart there that's in 172 00:08:16,740 --> 00:08:13,990 australasian science that the flow chart 173 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:16,750 the anti-evolution movement what they do 174 00:08:19,980 --> 00:08:18,370 actually go out and debate them is that 175 00:08:21,420 --> 00:08:19,990 part of the thing you actually go 176 00:08:23,790 --> 00:08:21,430 against them or you just looking at 177 00:08:26,850 --> 00:08:23,800 their history ah so well I have this 178 00:08:28,830 --> 00:08:26,860 history back in two thousand four to two 179 00:08:30,900 --> 00:08:28,840 thousand seven i worked for Eugenie 180 00:08:33,870 --> 00:08:30,910 Scott at the National Center for Science 181 00:08:36,210 --> 00:08:33,880 Education in the US and that's the the 182 00:08:39,150 --> 00:08:36,220 nonprofit organization that's devoted to 183 00:08:42,180 --> 00:08:39,160 defending evolution in the public 184 00:08:43,650 --> 00:08:42,190 schools especially and so I have that so 185 00:08:45,780 --> 00:08:43,660 I did that for several years then I went 186 00:08:48,390 --> 00:08:45,790 and got a PhD us in sort of straight 187 00:08:50,850 --> 00:08:48,400 science but then ten years later last 188 00:08:53,010 --> 00:08:50,860 year we were coming up of the 10th 189 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:53,020 anniversary of this famous court case 190 00:08:56,820 --> 00:08:55,090 that happened in 2005 oh is that is that 191 00:09:00,060 --> 00:08:56,830 the one that's in God's not too dead I 192 00:09:02,100 --> 00:09:00,070 saw that that movie oh it's got Melissa 193 00:09:04,140 --> 00:09:02,110 Joan Jardin is that the new movie yeah 194 00:09:06,270 --> 00:09:04,150 is that the new movie is that that court 195 00:09:07,860 --> 00:09:06,280 case wasn't I actually believe it's not 196 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:07,870 I think it's like that movie is 197 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:10,450 fictional oh yeah and I have not seen 198 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:11,890 the movie but it's a fictional movie I 199 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:14,050 believe it portrays the courtroom 200 00:09:18,390 --> 00:09:16,810 fantasy about because the anti 201 00:09:20,580 --> 00:09:18,400 evolutionists have these dreams and they 202 00:09:22,650 --> 00:09:20,590 write they've written many fictional 203 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:22,660 pieces where they dream that there will 204 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:24,010 be a court case and they'll get shown to 205 00:09:30,090 --> 00:09:25,930 be right so I was involved in an actual 206 00:09:34,350 --> 00:09:30,100 united states federal trial in 2005 and 207 00:09:35,850 --> 00:09:34,360 in that actual case in pennsylvania you 208 00:09:37,470 --> 00:09:35,860 know the creationists went into that 209 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:37,480 case thinking it would be sort of like 210 00:09:41,700 --> 00:09:39,370 these various movies and things that 211 00:09:43,470 --> 00:09:41,710 they do but it turns out there their 212 00:09:45,780 --> 00:09:43,480 lawyers are about as good as their 213 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:45,790 scientists and we had much better 214 00:09:49,380 --> 00:09:47,650 lawyers and much better scientists and 215 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:49,390 it was really a crushing victory for 216 00:09:53,130 --> 00:09:51,370 evolution so that's part of what I'm 217 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:53,140 going to talk about tonight and actually 218 00:09:56,670 --> 00:09:54,970 that court case had this had a big 219 00:09:58,500 --> 00:09:56,680 impact on the evolution of anti 220 00:10:01,560 --> 00:09:58,510 evolutionism which is the other thing 221 00:10:03,330 --> 00:10:01,570 I'll talk about now the anti-evolution 222 00:10:05,700 --> 00:10:03,340 is to bring the Bible is there evidence 223 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:05,710 how does that stand up in the court ah 224 00:10:10,680 --> 00:10:08,770 well it all depends on your country's 225 00:10:12,630 --> 00:10:10,690 sort of framework for deciding these 226 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:12,640 things Saudi Arabia that probably 227 00:10:16,650 --> 00:10:14,410 wouldn't go so well but the Quran would 228 00:10:18,030 --> 00:10:16,660 work there yeah well nuts that's how 229 00:10:20,370 --> 00:10:18,040 they run those things the United States 230 00:10:24,030 --> 00:10:20,380 right as has pretty official separation 231 00:10:26,430 --> 00:10:24,040 of church and state and so if if the 232 00:10:27,540 --> 00:10:26,440 Bible is being used explicitly in a 233 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:27,550 science classroom 234 00:10:32,370 --> 00:10:30,970 that will get ruled unconstitutional now 235 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:32,380 because of that there have been several 236 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:34,450 generations of evolution of these 237 00:10:38,490 --> 00:10:36,490 creationist arguments to make them seem 238 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:38,500 less based on the Bible and that's where 239 00:10:43,470 --> 00:10:40,330 things get interesting so in the 1980s 240 00:10:45,060 --> 00:10:43,480 we had creation science that was the 241 00:10:47,940 --> 00:10:45,070 phrase that was used and that got ruled 242 00:10:49,560 --> 00:10:47,950 unconstitutional in the in 2005 we had 243 00:10:52,019 --> 00:10:49,570 the intelligent design and that was that 244 00:10:53,310 --> 00:10:52,029 court case in 2005 and after that we've 245 00:10:54,900 --> 00:10:53,320 had these other strategies that have 246 00:10:56,759 --> 00:10:54,910 been promoted so and there's not yet 247 00:10:58,920 --> 00:10:56,769 been a court case on those so so it 248 00:11:01,199 --> 00:10:58,930 keeps it keeps changing kind of under 249 00:11:03,210 --> 00:11:01,209 legal pressure well with the new one it 250 00:11:05,460 --> 00:11:03,220 appears to be if you have a sincerely 251 00:11:08,190 --> 00:11:05,470 held religious belief is there a chance 252 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:08,200 that this will be used to beat evolution 253 00:11:13,170 --> 00:11:10,810 over the head oh so there have been some 254 00:11:16,009 --> 00:11:13,180 attempts in at that kind of argument 255 00:11:18,180 --> 00:11:16,019 they haven't won as far as I know 256 00:11:19,560 --> 00:11:18,190 there's this balancing act that the 257 00:11:21,180 --> 00:11:19,570 government has to play between there's 258 00:11:23,310 --> 00:11:21,190 two clauses in the First Amendment of 259 00:11:24,530 --> 00:11:23,320 the US Constitution one says the 260 00:11:26,790 --> 00:11:24,540 government shall make no law respecting 261 00:11:30,630 --> 00:11:26,800 establishment of religion and the other 262 00:11:32,850 --> 00:11:30,640 one says or or impacting free exercise 263 00:11:35,310 --> 00:11:32,860 thereof so the Free Exercise Clause 264 00:11:37,769 --> 00:11:35,320 sometimes gets used to say well my 265 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:37,779 personal religious belief means that you 266 00:11:42,090 --> 00:11:39,970 can't apress me by teaching my children 267 00:11:43,860 --> 00:11:42,100 about science or something those cases 268 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:43,870 have usually lost because the argument 269 00:11:48,300 --> 00:11:47,050 is teaching science has a secular 270 00:11:50,250 --> 00:11:48,310 purpose the government the whole point 271 00:11:52,560 --> 00:11:50,260 of having a government is to do secular 272 00:11:54,210 --> 00:11:52,570 things teaching science is one of those 273 00:11:56,670 --> 00:11:54,220 and so those court cases haven't usually 274 00:11:58,620 --> 00:11:56,680 one but people keep trying to invent new 275 00:12:00,600 --> 00:11:58,630 versions of these arguments now does it 276 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:00,610 keep you awake it not all these threats 277 00:12:05,340 --> 00:12:03,850 to the whole thing literally it has 278 00:12:07,680 --> 00:12:05,350 sometimes because you know I actually 279 00:12:09,780 --> 00:12:07,690 worked on these issues and and still 280 00:12:12,030 --> 00:12:09,790 sometimes you know I debate these guys 281 00:12:14,220 --> 00:12:12,040 on the internet and stuff I'd dropped 282 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:14,230 out some because there's been less of 283 00:12:18,389 --> 00:12:15,970 this issue in the public eye although 284 00:12:20,550 --> 00:12:18,399 it's still going on so it mostly depends 285 00:12:22,710 --> 00:12:20,560 on how annoyed you are right it's some 286 00:12:23,910 --> 00:12:22,720 particular set of arguments that someone 287 00:12:25,319 --> 00:12:23,920 who does is professionally in a 288 00:12:26,910 --> 00:12:25,329 courtroom the last thing you want to do 289 00:12:28,110 --> 00:12:26,920 late at night is start an argument with 290 00:12:29,340 --> 00:12:28,120 someone on the Internet you don't need 291 00:12:32,430 --> 00:12:29,350 that sort of aggravation in your life 292 00:12:34,889 --> 00:12:32,440 sir well you if it was a rational thing 293 00:12:37,110 --> 00:12:34,899 you'd be right it's you know I started 294 00:12:38,819 --> 00:12:37,120 out doing that as a hobby before even 295 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:38,829 before it was a big issue was just kind 296 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:40,010 of people are wrong on the internet 297 00:12:45,580 --> 00:12:42,170 and I was learning evolution myself at 298 00:12:47,170 --> 00:12:45,590 the times this is what 15 years ago so I 299 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:47,180 did it for fun and I still occasionally 300 00:12:52,420 --> 00:12:49,730 do it for fun alive I've you know heard 301 00:12:54,070 --> 00:12:52,430 almost every argument so it is usually 302 00:12:56,980 --> 00:12:54,080 only if something new pops up will I 303 00:12:59,200 --> 00:12:56,990 sort of get interested in it um now they 304 00:13:00,930 --> 00:12:59,210 still trying to push the earth is 6,000 305 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:00,940 years old or was that a particular 306 00:13:05,650 --> 00:13:03,890 fundamentalist group that one say oh so 307 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:05,660 well amongst creationists you have your 308 00:13:09,550 --> 00:13:07,970 young earth creationists that think the 309 00:13:11,290 --> 00:13:09,560 earth is that young and you have your 310 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:11,300 old earth creationists that think it's 311 00:13:15,220 --> 00:13:13,370 billions of years old but they still 312 00:13:17,500 --> 00:13:15,230 don't believe in evolution and the 313 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:17,510 intelligent design movement was kind of 314 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:19,490 about trying to bring those two camps 315 00:13:23,680 --> 00:13:21,410 together despite their disagreements to 316 00:13:25,630 --> 00:13:23,690 both gang up on evolution and that 317 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:25,640 turned out to backfire illegally because 318 00:13:29,110 --> 00:13:26,930 if you include the young earth 319 00:13:32,740 --> 00:13:29,120 creationists and it's particularly clear 320 00:13:34,300 --> 00:13:32,750 that it's a biblically based thing so 321 00:13:36,070 --> 00:13:34,310 they tried to cover that over it didn't 322 00:13:37,150 --> 00:13:36,080 really work very well so that fight 323 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:37,160 still goes on amongst the 324 00:13:45,220 --> 00:13:42,650 fundamentalists but yeah behind the home 325 00:13:47,230 --> 00:13:45,230 non belief in evolution is that people 326 00:13:49,420 --> 00:13:47,240 that want to be Bible literalists or is 327 00:13:54,310 --> 00:13:49,430 it people that just don't trust science 328 00:13:56,050 --> 00:13:54,320 oh how to say that I mean they obviously 329 00:13:58,300 --> 00:13:56,060 don't trust science although they claim 330 00:14:00,670 --> 00:13:58,310 to love science but the fundamental 331 00:14:02,860 --> 00:14:00,680 thing is generally the biblical 332 00:14:04,810 --> 00:14:02,870 literalism and fundamentalism that's 333 00:14:06,790 --> 00:14:04,820 that is the beating heart of all these 334 00:14:09,550 --> 00:14:06,800 anti-evolution movements you get a few 335 00:14:11,770 --> 00:14:09,560 people who are I would say contrarians 336 00:14:14,070 --> 00:14:11,780 who just don't believe you know anything 337 00:14:15,940 --> 00:14:14,080 that the majority says or the dominant 338 00:14:17,650 --> 00:14:15,950 authorities say right and so those 339 00:14:19,750 --> 00:14:17,660 people exist fate they don't tend to be 340 00:14:20,980 --> 00:14:19,760 that organized they do tend to jump in 341 00:14:22,900 --> 00:14:20,990 like if they write a book the 342 00:14:23,890 --> 00:14:22,910 creationist soul site that book and say 343 00:14:26,140 --> 00:14:23,900 look there's somebody who's not a 344 00:14:27,940 --> 00:14:26,150 fundamentalist who's on our side but but 345 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:27,950 they're not a major player I would say 346 00:14:32,050 --> 00:14:30,170 is Texas still the hot better this as 347 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:32,060 far as the textbooks are concerned I 348 00:14:36,460 --> 00:14:34,490 believe that text though as goes Texas 349 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:36,470 with the textbooks it goes to the rest 350 00:14:40,090 --> 00:14:38,570 of the United States is that's still an 351 00:14:41,830 --> 00:14:40,100 issue because they try and put an issue 352 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:41,840 in at Texas and that spreads is that 353 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:43,970 explain that to Australian less done 354 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:46,130 yeah so this is one of the weird 355 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:47,810 features of the u.s. rate is fifty 356 00:14:52,830 --> 00:14:49,850 states each state makes its own 357 00:14:54,740 --> 00:14:52,840 education policy and choose 358 00:14:56,970 --> 00:14:54,750 zone textbooks for the students and 359 00:14:59,880 --> 00:14:56,980 Texas is about the second biggest 360 00:15:02,610 --> 00:14:59,890 textbook market and for decades and 361 00:15:05,790 --> 00:15:02,620 decades the State Board of Education has 362 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:05,800 been run very often by very conservative 363 00:15:11,550 --> 00:15:08,410 members and they often give a lot of 364 00:15:13,740 --> 00:15:11,560 they'll invite creations to testify the 365 00:15:15,870 --> 00:15:13,750 let creationists mess around with the 366 00:15:18,150 --> 00:15:15,880 textbook adoption process and that is 367 00:15:20,130 --> 00:15:18,160 still going on and it'll go on and tell 368 00:15:22,590 --> 00:15:20,140 the voters you know change the politics 369 00:15:24,770 --> 00:15:22,600 of that board so yeah every couple years 370 00:15:27,180 --> 00:15:24,780 there's a big fight over text books the 371 00:15:29,940 --> 00:15:27,190 influence of Texas on other states is 372 00:15:32,790 --> 00:15:29,950 somewhat reduced now because basically 373 00:15:34,380 --> 00:15:32,800 if computers they can it's easier to 374 00:15:36,140 --> 00:15:34,390 edit text books and make state-specific 375 00:15:38,250 --> 00:15:36,150 editions in the olden days it was just 376 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:38,260 publisher would only write one book and 377 00:15:42,710 --> 00:15:40,690 send it everywhere so it's a little it's 378 00:15:44,940 --> 00:15:42,720 a little modified but on the other hand 379 00:15:46,830 --> 00:15:44,950 that creates its own problem because 380 00:15:48,510 --> 00:15:46,840 it's possible you know it's still bad if 381 00:15:50,430 --> 00:15:48,520 texas has bed text books that's still a 382 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:50,440 problem right so the fact that the 383 00:15:54,060 --> 00:15:51,850 publishers can hit a few buttons and 384 00:15:55,470 --> 00:15:54,070 produce a watered-down science textbook 385 00:15:58,530 --> 00:15:55,480 for a certain state that's not very good 386 00:16:00,420 --> 00:15:58,540 so overall recently the publishers due 387 00:16:01,710 --> 00:16:00,430 to pressure from Pro science people the 388 00:16:03,900 --> 00:16:01,720 publishers have been much better about 389 00:16:06,690 --> 00:16:03,910 resisting political attempts to screw 390 00:16:08,370 --> 00:16:06,700 around with the science education and so 391 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:08,380 that is actually improved but it's 392 00:16:12,690 --> 00:16:10,690 taking work by scientific societies to 393 00:16:14,790 --> 00:16:12,700 make that happen and what is the most 394 00:16:18,330 --> 00:16:14,800 conservative state and has the most 395 00:16:19,830 --> 00:16:18,340 friction against evolution automatically 396 00:16:21,810 --> 00:16:19,840 run things somewhere down south so I'll 397 00:16:23,820 --> 00:16:21,820 be thinking maybe Tennessee Louisiana 398 00:16:26,070 --> 00:16:23,830 ethic like that or am i just being you 399 00:16:28,410 --> 00:16:26,080 know am i just being Australian thinking 400 00:16:31,050 --> 00:16:28,420 wrong now you've heard right those are 401 00:16:33,090 --> 00:16:31,060 two of the big ones um Mississippi has 402 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:33,100 issues like part of what I was studying 403 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:34,690 in this study of the evolution of 404 00:16:38,790 --> 00:16:36,610 anti-evolution is where do these bills 405 00:16:40,350 --> 00:16:38,800 get past these anti-evolution bills and 406 00:16:42,030 --> 00:16:40,360 currently there's one passed in 407 00:16:43,470 --> 00:16:42,040 Louisiana there's one passed in 408 00:16:45,450 --> 00:16:43,480 Tennessee and there's one passed in 409 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:45,460 Mississippi um so if you talk about 410 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:46,570 something that's passed by the state 411 00:16:51,990 --> 00:16:50,170 legislature to affect curriculum those 412 00:16:53,940 --> 00:16:52,000 are the three states to have them those 413 00:16:55,290 --> 00:16:53,950 particular policies are they you know 414 00:16:57,960 --> 00:16:55,300 because of all these other court cases 415 00:17:00,150 --> 00:16:57,970 they're pretty watered down so their 416 00:17:01,620 --> 00:17:00,160 effect is debatable but there's still 417 00:17:04,020 --> 00:17:01,630 quite annoying if you're if you're a 418 00:17:06,180 --> 00:17:04,030 science advocate because they open the 419 00:17:08,250 --> 00:17:06,190 door basically for teachers to 420 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:08,260 teach alternatives to evolution they 421 00:17:11,550 --> 00:17:10,210 won't say what the alternatives are but 422 00:17:14,220 --> 00:17:11,560 they'll say oh yeah let's teach critical 423 00:17:15,750 --> 00:17:14,230 analysis of evolution and of course 424 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:15,760 that's that's intended to give 425 00:17:18,870 --> 00:17:17,290 permission to teachers to teach 426 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:18,880 creationism that's what the whole point 427 00:17:21,930 --> 00:17:20,770 of it is but it's all very hidden so 428 00:17:25,260 --> 00:17:21,940 that they won't get challenged in court 429 00:17:26,340 --> 00:17:25,270 I'm not a problem with them and what 430 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:26,350 actually what is the problem with 431 00:17:30,390 --> 00:17:28,330 accepting evolution and saying that God 432 00:17:32,850 --> 00:17:30,400 had a the the glory of Jesus Christ had 433 00:17:35,010 --> 00:17:32,860 a overseeing effect on the whole thing 434 00:17:37,110 --> 00:17:35,020 like he can still be there in a 70 East 435 00:17:39,060 --> 00:17:37,120 kind of way and that doesn't deny the 436 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:39,070 existence of God by saying evolutions 437 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:41,530 true does it that doesn't bother me 438 00:17:47,910 --> 00:17:43,930 personally um many some people are 439 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:47,920 bothered by it it depends on you know it 440 00:17:50,910 --> 00:17:49,330 depends whether you're bein issue is 441 00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:50,920 science education or kind of atheism 442 00:17:55,650 --> 00:17:54,130 right and some people are advocates for 443 00:17:58,860 --> 00:17:55,660 atheism and that is their right to do 444 00:18:01,110 --> 00:17:58,870 and that's perfectly fine the I think 445 00:18:03,090 --> 00:18:01,120 the theological arguments are belong 446 00:18:04,770 --> 00:18:03,100 outside of the the government schools at 447 00:18:06,150 --> 00:18:04,780 least in the US where we have this 448 00:18:07,860 --> 00:18:06,160 pretty strict separation of church and 449 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:07,870 state and also you know in the 450 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:09,610 scientific community you won't find a 451 00:18:13,470 --> 00:18:11,890 lot of enthusiasm typically for for 452 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:13,480 bringing theological debates like that 453 00:18:17,490 --> 00:18:16,210 into the scientific discussion so I 454 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:17,500 think you know you should keep your 455 00:18:21,140 --> 00:18:19,090 science and your theology separate right 456 00:18:23,730 --> 00:18:21,150 so you have your scientific debates as 457 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:23,740 professionals where everywhere is people 458 00:18:27,690 --> 00:18:25,090 of all sorts of different religions in 459 00:18:30,330 --> 00:18:27,700 science and in the government's that are 460 00:18:32,180 --> 00:18:30,340 funding you know science so you have 461 00:18:34,500 --> 00:18:32,190 your scientific debates there and then 462 00:18:36,300 --> 00:18:34,510 anyone who wishes to is totally free to 463 00:18:38,730 --> 00:18:36,310 engage in theological discussions about 464 00:18:40,710 --> 00:18:38,740 what that science means but I would hope 465 00:18:42,900 --> 00:18:40,720 people can I mean science is the part 466 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:42,910 that is based on you know empirical 467 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:46,330 testing and in on hard data and that's 468 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:47,530 the part that people should ought to be 469 00:18:49,740 --> 00:18:48,850 able to agree on and then leave the rest 470 00:18:52,140 --> 00:18:49,750 of it for their philosophical 471 00:18:54,360 --> 00:18:52,150 discussions and Nick what is the next 472 00:18:55,950 --> 00:18:54,370 evolution of the flowchart of the 473 00:18:57,690 --> 00:18:55,960 anti-evolution movement what's the next 474 00:19:00,450 --> 00:18:57,700 battle do you think you may have 25 ah 475 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:00,460 well right now so they're about 70 of 476 00:19:05,550 --> 00:19:02,290 these anti-evolution bills that have 477 00:19:07,350 --> 00:19:05,560 been proposed over the last ten years as 478 00:19:08,580 --> 00:19:07,360 I mentioned two of them have I guess two 479 00:19:11,340 --> 00:19:08,590 of them have passed a third one is 480 00:19:13,590 --> 00:19:11,350 highly modified got past arm and right 481 00:19:16,470 --> 00:19:13,600 now it's not clear what the impact those 482 00:19:18,030 --> 00:19:16,480 bills are having we suspect that certain 483 00:19:18,549 --> 00:19:18,040 teachers and certain school districts 484 00:19:21,009 --> 00:19:18,559 are using 485 00:19:24,100 --> 00:19:21,019 to basically teach creationism in the 486 00:19:26,529 --> 00:19:24,110 public schools in the US Armed there may 487 00:19:29,049 --> 00:19:26,539 not be those bills keep getting pushed 488 00:19:31,749 --> 00:19:29,059 in other states every year so sooner or 489 00:19:34,779 --> 00:19:31,759 later somebody will use it in a public 490 00:19:37,210 --> 00:19:34,789 enough way and in an annoying enough way 491 00:19:38,710 --> 00:19:37,220 that some other parent who doesn't want 492 00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:38,720 this to happen with their students will 493 00:19:41,769 --> 00:19:40,370 complain and then there could be a 494 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:41,779 political fighter there could be a legal 495 00:19:46,810 --> 00:19:43,970 battle about it and then we'll see how 496 00:19:49,060 --> 00:19:46,820 these these bills fares so so yeah it's 497 00:19:50,649 --> 00:19:49,070 one of these issues you know there every 498 00:19:53,289 --> 00:19:50,659 10 or 20 years there's a huge battle 499 00:19:55,180 --> 00:19:53,299 somewhere we had a big one in 2005 ten 500 00:19:56,529 --> 00:19:55,190 years ago right now the issue is kind of 501 00:19:58,720 --> 00:19:56,539 under the radar but it's going to come 502 00:20:00,129 --> 00:19:58,730 back at some point it only does what 503 00:20:01,659 --> 00:20:00,139 about in Australia is this an issue that 504 00:20:03,999 --> 00:20:01,669 we have to deal with you in Australia I 505 00:20:05,499 --> 00:20:04,009 haven't heard of any really big public 506 00:20:07,899 --> 00:20:05,509 stashes like you have over there in the 507 00:20:10,570 --> 00:20:07,909 u.s. oh yeah my impression is it's not 508 00:20:12,519 --> 00:20:10,580 as big an issue here but again these 509 00:20:14,230 --> 00:20:12,529 things tend to come back there's there 510 00:20:16,090 --> 00:20:14,240 are some famous creationists that are 511 00:20:18,269 --> 00:20:16,100 from Australia they ended up you know 512 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:18,279 the most famous one ended up in the US 513 00:20:22,980 --> 00:20:20,450 which is where most of the money is for 514 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:22,990 this kind of thing but they still have 515 00:20:29,830 --> 00:20:27,369 wings of their movement in Australia and 516 00:20:31,509 --> 00:20:29,840 and the other thing i've discovered is 517 00:20:34,330 --> 00:20:31,519 that internationally around the world 518 00:20:37,690 --> 00:20:34,340 american fundamentalist tend to export 519 00:20:39,330 --> 00:20:37,700 their views quite actively right so they 520 00:20:41,889 --> 00:20:39,340 tend to found churches send missionaries 521 00:20:44,379 --> 00:20:41,899 they do it all the kind any country they 522 00:20:45,700 --> 00:20:44,389 can and often before anyone's even 523 00:20:47,409 --> 00:20:45,710 paying attention there will be an entire 524 00:20:49,810 --> 00:20:47,419 you know large mega church of 525 00:20:51,220 --> 00:20:49,820 fundamentalist somewhere and they'll 526 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:51,230 bring in one of these American 527 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:53,450 anti-evolution speakers and pretty soon 528 00:20:57,460 --> 00:20:55,490 you have hundreds of people parents 529 00:20:59,350 --> 00:20:57,470 riled up about evolution and they'll 530 00:21:01,720 --> 00:20:59,360 start complaining or try and get 531 00:21:03,970 --> 00:21:01,730 modifications to their a local education 532 00:21:05,409 --> 00:21:03,980 system and then it gets political so so 533 00:21:06,970 --> 00:21:05,419 it can happen in any country so it's 534 00:21:08,289 --> 00:21:06,980 worth being aware of what's going on I 535 00:21:09,820 --> 00:21:08,299 mean it's good that there's less of it 536 00:21:11,529 --> 00:21:09,830 happening in Australia but you always 537 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:11,539 got to sort of pay attention to what's 538 00:21:14,590 --> 00:21:13,129 going on well where can people catch you 539 00:21:16,269 --> 00:21:14,600 online to find out what you're up to and 540 00:21:18,519 --> 00:21:16,279 where can we find you online sir website 541 00:21:20,859 --> 00:21:18,529 yeah if you google me my name is Nick 542 00:21:22,239 --> 00:21:20,869 Matzke that'll that'll bring up all the 543 00:21:24,460 --> 00:21:22,249 stuff I even there's somebody made a 544 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:24,470 Wikipedia page for me so that that goes 545 00:21:27,670 --> 00:21:26,690 through all the history so so that'll 546 00:21:28,660 --> 00:21:27,680 start you up 547 00:21:31,150 --> 00:21:28,670 hope you don't lose too much sleep 548 00:21:32,170 --> 00:21:31,160 tonight on the internet arguing me that 549 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:32,180 he won and thanks for joining us here 550 00:22:07,770 --> 00:21:33,770 for the big dinner tonight Nick hey 551 00:22:16,350 --> 00:22:13,000 are you skeptical skip decal in other 552 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:16,360 words do you see yourself attending 553 00:22:20,950 --> 00:22:18,650 northern california science and 554 00:22:23,980 --> 00:22:20,960 skepticism conference Sunday May 555 00:22:26,410 --> 00:22:23,990 fifteenth I see myself attending that I 556 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:26,420 would like to attend that I if I 557 00:22:32,110 --> 00:22:29,210 visualize things you know if I use the 558 00:22:36,220 --> 00:22:32,120 secret the law of attraction let me see 559 00:22:40,590 --> 00:22:36,230 concentrate now concentrate lovely 560 00:22:43,060 --> 00:22:40,600 airline sending me ticket to skeptical 561 00:22:45,310 --> 00:22:43,070 well I don't think that'll happen but 562 00:22:47,350 --> 00:22:45,320 I'd love to go skeptic Cal is the 563 00:22:49,360 --> 00:22:47,360 Northern Californian conference and 564 00:22:52,030 --> 00:22:49,370 science and skepticism a day-long event 565 00:22:54,970 --> 00:22:52,040 with speakers panels and discussions on 566 00:22:57,100 --> 00:22:54,980 a wide array of subjects the 2016 567 00:22:59,830 --> 00:22:57,110 skeptical event will be held on my 568 00:23:03,100 --> 00:22:59,840 fifteenth at the Oakland Asian Cultural 569 00:23:06,310 --> 00:23:03,110 Center they have once again put together 570 00:23:08,890 --> 00:23:06,320 another all-star cast of speakers make 571 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:08,900 sure you save the date I am saving I 572 00:23:12,210 --> 00:23:10,850 promise I'm saving the date but no 573 00:23:14,260 --> 00:23:12,220 forget their brain saving the day 574 00:23:17,740 --> 00:23:14,270 there's going to be talks about 575 00:23:20,260 --> 00:23:17,750 exploring Saturn our ancient ancestors 576 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:20,270 from erectus everything you know about 577 00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:23,810 autism history is wrong brain myths 578 00:23:31,390 --> 00:23:27,370 lessons from neuroscience vaccinations 579 00:23:34,540 --> 00:23:31,400 testing psychic powers gene editing and 580 00:23:36,790 --> 00:23:34,550 a workshop for producing skeptical 581 00:23:41,050 --> 00:23:36,800 children boggles the mind it sounds like 582 00:23:49,420 --> 00:23:41,060 a terrific day skeptical Northern 583 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:49,430 California at ww skeptical sk-ii PT IC 584 00:23:58,750 --> 00:23:55,490 al Con Thien calm skeptical condo 585 00:24:00,900 --> 00:23:58,760 that's a mouthful you might even get to 586 00:24:03,850 --> 00:24:00,910 meet someone like oh I don't know 587 00:24:06,340 --> 00:24:03,860 Eugenie Scott who worth the price of 588 00:24:08,230 --> 00:24:06,350 admission alone folks and if the law of 589 00:24:12,210 --> 00:24:08,240 attraction truly does work I might even 590 00:24:15,340 --> 00:24:12,220 see you there myself well we can try 591 00:24:35,710 --> 00:24:15,350 skeptical Northern California's science 592 00:24:38,350 --> 00:24:35,720 and skepticism conference CS stop simply 593 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:38,360 idiot hey Sal you guys guys I just had 594 00:24:42,220 --> 00:24:40,250 the most amazing experience what 595 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:42,230 experience unders unders have you been 596 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:43,610 to the pub I told you not to hang out 597 00:24:47,770 --> 00:24:45,770 with mash you know she was blessed by 598 00:24:50,530 --> 00:24:47,780 peter Popoff no yellow no i'm not 599 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:50,540 talking about psychics it was a really 600 00:24:54,549 --> 00:24:52,850 SP experience now you have been to the 601 00:24:57,250 --> 00:24:54,559 pub either that or you've been smoking 602 00:24:59,740 --> 00:24:57,260 something no pointers the ESB is the 603 00:25:01,900 --> 00:24:59,750 European skeptics podcast it's the most 604 00:25:03,700 --> 00:25:01,910 amazing thing you get to know so much 605 00:25:06,549 --> 00:25:03,710 about skeptics and their activities 606 00:25:08,650 --> 00:25:06,559 across Europe you know events hot topics 607 00:25:10,870 --> 00:25:08,660 and interviews with lots of interesting 608 00:25:12,610 --> 00:25:10,880 people oh wow cool by the way pointers 609 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:12,620 you just come into the false dichotomy 610 00:25:17,890 --> 00:25:15,050 fallacy I guess that means I'm really 611 00:25:19,900 --> 00:25:17,900 wrong yep and you can even learn about 612 00:25:22,390 --> 00:25:19,910 those fallacies in the show and hear 613 00:25:24,669 --> 00:25:22,400 about people spreading silly ideas you 614 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:24,679 should really check it out it's the ESP 615 00:25:30,340 --> 00:25:27,650 the European skeptics podcast it's on 616 00:25:32,650 --> 00:25:30,350 never weak alright so where can I get 617 00:25:35,350 --> 00:25:32,660 this is the experience it sounds good 618 00:25:38,410 --> 00:25:35,360 you can go online at the ESP do to you 619 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:38,420 follow it on twitter at es podcast 620 00:25:43,570 --> 00:25:41,450 underscore EU or like the podcast on 621 00:25:46,630 --> 00:25:43,580 facebook oh and you can also contact the 622 00:25:50,470 --> 00:25:46,640 show by sending them an email to info at 623 00:25:52,510 --> 00:25:50,480 the ESPE you and if you want to 624 00:25:55,260 --> 00:25:52,520 subscribe do a quick search for the 625 00:25:58,090 --> 00:25:55,270 european skeptic podcast on soundcloud 626 00:26:11,860 --> 00:25:58,100 itunes or stitcher 627 00:26:14,620 --> 00:26:11,870 I don't know I you can't believe now 628 00:26:20,919 --> 00:26:14,630 it's time for dr. Richie reports with 629 00:26:23,980 --> 00:26:20,929 dr. Rachel Dunlop now we've heard of the 630 00:26:26,830 --> 00:26:23,990 no jab no play law and now they're 631 00:26:28,510 --> 00:26:26,840 central ings no jab nope a law but what 632 00:26:30,010 --> 00:26:28,520 happens when parents can't agree on 633 00:26:32,260 --> 00:26:30,020 whether their children should be 634 00:26:36,070 --> 00:26:32,270 vaccinated an Australian mother is now 635 00:26:37,409 --> 00:26:36,080 taking action to find out she's the 636 00:26:40,390 --> 00:26:37,419 Queensland mother causing widespread 637 00:26:42,700 --> 00:26:40,400 controversy over a fundraising page and 638 00:26:44,980 --> 00:26:42,710 a patel is willing to do anything to 639 00:26:47,020 --> 00:26:44,990 stop her former partner from vaccinating 640 00:26:49,419 --> 00:26:47,030 their two young children using a 641 00:26:52,120 --> 00:26:49,429 GoFundMe page to raise ten thousand 642 00:26:54,279 --> 00:26:52,130 dollars to take him to court poster just 643 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:54,289 a few days ago miss patel explains that 644 00:26:58,180 --> 00:26:55,970 the seven and three year olds have never 645 00:27:00,340 --> 00:26:58,190 been vaccinated an issue that remains 646 00:27:02,140 --> 00:27:00,350 paramount to her and now the children's 647 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:02,150 father is stepping in to change that 648 00:27:06,610 --> 00:27:04,730 their father Anil has revealed that 649 00:27:08,950 --> 00:27:06,620 despite taking a back seat on the issue 650 00:27:12,159 --> 00:27:08,960 in the past he's now concerned for their 651 00:27:14,230 --> 00:27:12,169 help so far miss patel's public play has 652 00:27:16,510 --> 00:27:14,240 raised two hundred and ninety dollars a 653 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:16,520 far cry from the thousands needed to 654 00:27:20,250 --> 00:27:18,650 hire a lawyer but this isn't the mother 655 00:27:22,810 --> 00:27:20,260 of two s first time in the spotlight 656 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:22,820 last month she allegedly posted on 657 00:27:27,190 --> 00:27:24,890 facebook site vaccine free Australia 658 00:27:29,529 --> 00:27:27,200 encouraging like-minded parents to lie 659 00:27:32,289 --> 00:27:29,539 to center link in order to still receive 660 00:27:34,390 --> 00:27:32,299 financial benefits defying the no chat 661 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:34,400 no pay laws that came into effect in 662 00:27:37,990 --> 00:27:36,650 January miss Patel has garnered much 663 00:27:40,149 --> 00:27:38,000 support from anti-vaccination 664 00:27:41,890 --> 00:27:40,159 campaigners but there are thousands of 665 00:27:43,899 --> 00:27:41,900 parents across Australia expressing 666 00:27:48,049 --> 00:27:43,909 their fury calling her behavior 667 00:27:50,580 --> 00:27:48,059 despicable irresponsible and plain crazy 668 00:27:53,250 --> 00:27:50,590 joining us from Sidious family lawyer 669 00:27:55,860 --> 00:27:53,260 Amy Jenkins and dr. Rachel Dunlop from 670 00:27:59,280 --> 00:27:55,870 stop the Australian anti-vaccination 671 00:28:00,930 --> 00:27:59,290 Network Amy first to you under 672 00:28:02,700 --> 00:28:00,940 Australian law the process of 673 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:02,710 vaccinating children falls within the 674 00:28:07,650 --> 00:28:05,050 scope of pure parental responsibility 675 00:28:11,220 --> 00:28:07,660 what happens in a case like this where 676 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:11,230 two parents disagree it's a quite a 677 00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:13,210 difficult argument that would have to be 678 00:28:17,810 --> 00:28:15,130 run what would need to happen is if the 679 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:17,820 parties couldn't reach agreement to 680 00:28:22,500 --> 00:28:20,530 either make the decision to vaccinate or 681 00:28:24,390 --> 00:28:22,510 not to vaccinate the parties would then 682 00:28:26,790 --> 00:28:24,400 need to commence proceedings within the 683 00:28:28,650 --> 00:28:26,800 family court and ask for a judge to 684 00:28:30,180 --> 00:28:28,660 determine what is in their children's 685 00:28:34,890 --> 00:28:30,190 best interest and whether they should be 686 00:28:37,799 --> 00:28:34,900 vaccinated or not okay Rachel both 687 00:28:39,810 --> 00:28:37,809 parents here obviously believe what 688 00:28:42,510 --> 00:28:39,820 they're doing is in the best interests 689 00:28:45,510 --> 00:28:42,520 of the children what can the long-term 690 00:28:49,110 --> 00:28:45,520 effects be of not vaccinating children 691 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:49,120 in this day and age well this is the 692 00:28:53,970 --> 00:28:51,610 problem because in the long term this 693 00:28:55,620 --> 00:28:53,980 could result in the children contracting 694 00:28:57,330 --> 00:28:55,630 vaccine-preventable diseases and we've 695 00:28:59,700 --> 00:28:57,340 seen the resurgence of some of these 696 00:29:01,650 --> 00:28:59,710 diseases in the in recent times like 697 00:29:04,169 --> 00:29:01,660 whooping cough and also measles recently 698 00:29:06,990 --> 00:29:04,179 in Victoria but importantly it poses a 699 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:07,000 lifelong risk to the children I mean in 700 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:09,850 2011 here in Brisbane we actually saw a 701 00:29:14,340 --> 00:29:12,210 22 year old girl died from diphtheria 702 00:29:16,650 --> 00:29:14,350 now who's ever heard of diphtheria 703 00:29:18,330 --> 00:29:16,660 anymore and this was because she hadn't 704 00:29:20,310 --> 00:29:18,340 been vaccinated as a child and a friend 705 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:20,320 went overseas and brought the disease 706 00:29:24,630 --> 00:29:22,570 back to the country so it's extremely 707 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:24,640 important that we protect our children 708 00:29:31,230 --> 00:29:27,250 and also as the kids go into adulthood 709 00:29:34,049 --> 00:29:31,240 they need protection as well but Rachel 710 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:34,059 the anti-vaxxers sort of throw up all 711 00:29:40,530 --> 00:29:37,210 this stuff about it causes autism I 712 00:29:43,350 --> 00:29:40,540 could kill a child now look life is all 713 00:29:47,070 --> 00:29:43,360 about risks is a nut and trading office 714 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:47,080 and life is not perfect look this is a 715 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:48,850 really terrible situation for both these 716 00:29:52,049 --> 00:29:50,770 parents because as you say they both 717 00:29:53,820 --> 00:29:52,059 believe they're doing the right thing 718 00:29:55,770 --> 00:29:53,830 but unfortunately it seems that the 719 00:29:57,419 --> 00:29:55,780 mother in this case has either got the 720 00:29:59,860 --> 00:29:57,429 wrong information or being misinformed 721 00:30:01,960 --> 00:29:59,870 because science overwhelmingly show 722 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:01,970 is that vaccines are safe effective 723 00:30:05,740 --> 00:30:03,770 they're one of the most effective public 724 00:30:08,830 --> 00:30:05,750 health measures that we've ever invented 725 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:08,840 as scientists and so the father is 726 00:30:11,799 --> 00:30:10,490 really on the side of science he and 727 00:30:17,170 --> 00:30:11,809 unfortunately she has probably been 728 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:17,180 misled or misinformed yes well said Amy 729 00:30:20,950 --> 00:30:19,370 let's say I mean this mother has only 730 00:30:22,030 --> 00:30:20,960 raised two hundred ninety dollars so 731 00:30:24,190 --> 00:30:22,040 it's not going very well this 732 00:30:26,290 --> 00:30:24,200 crowdfunding campaign but let's say she 733 00:30:29,730 --> 00:30:26,300 did raise enough funds to actually take 734 00:30:32,620 --> 00:30:29,740 this to court how would this play out 735 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:32,630 look I'm not advising this client 736 00:30:37,540 --> 00:30:35,690 specifically but what I can say is that 737 00:30:39,490 --> 00:30:37,550 the court would need to look at both of 738 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:39,500 the parties evidence that they brought 739 00:30:44,919 --> 00:30:42,170 forward also the parties would need to 740 00:30:46,210 --> 00:30:44,929 bring forward some medical evidence and 741 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:46,220 the court would then need to make a 742 00:30:50,530 --> 00:30:48,770 determination based on that evidence and 743 00:30:52,690 --> 00:30:50,540 what the court considers to be the 744 00:30:56,710 --> 00:30:52,700 children's best interests it's a very 745 00:30:58,030 --> 00:30:56,720 difficult case yeah it sure is right 746 00:31:11,280 --> 00:30:58,040 ladies thank you very much for that 747 00:31:15,460 --> 00:31:13,870 today this is dr. Karl Karl Christmas be 748 00:31:17,770 --> 00:31:15,470 proud to be skeptic and you can find out 749 00:31:41,250 --> 00:31:17,780 more about me at dr. Karl calm and get 750 00:31:51,260 --> 00:31:47,970 has published at wwwcom a you gold coast 751 00:31:54,570 --> 00:31:51,270 mum passes on whooping cough too baby 752 00:31:58,890 --> 00:31:54,580 after refusing vaccine sixth of April 753 00:32:00,990 --> 00:31:58,900 2016 by jane hansen a Gold Coast mother 754 00:32:03,510 --> 00:32:01,000 who refused the whooping cough vaccine 755 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:03,520 during pregnancy went on to catch the 756 00:32:08,910 --> 00:32:06,130 potentially deadly disease and pass it 757 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:08,920 on to her brand-new baby girl the mother 758 00:32:13,710 --> 00:32:11,290 who has gone public in a video posted on 759 00:32:16,470 --> 00:32:13,720 the Gold Coast Health website to warn 760 00:32:19,470 --> 00:32:16,480 others said she had refused the vaccine 761 00:32:22,500 --> 00:32:19,480 because she was a quote organic end 762 00:32:24,990 --> 00:32:22,510 quote kind of woman quote I was a 763 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:25,000 healthy pregnant woman worked out went 764 00:32:29,940 --> 00:32:27,610 to the gym aight very healthily had a 765 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:29,950 natural birth and somehow in the last 766 00:32:34,950 --> 00:32:32,410 two weeks of my pregnancy I managed to 767 00:32:37,950 --> 00:32:34,960 get whooping cough and didn't know and 768 00:32:40,230 --> 00:32:37,960 quote she said after the birth she went 769 00:32:42,870 --> 00:32:40,240 to the doctor about a persistent cough 770 00:32:44,970 --> 00:32:42,880 and found out she had whooping cough 771 00:32:47,850 --> 00:32:44,980 that had been passed on to her baby 772 00:32:50,670 --> 00:32:47,860 daughter Eva quote Eva was diagnosed 773 00:32:53,820 --> 00:32:50,680 with whooping cough and it is a 774 00:32:56,550 --> 00:32:53,830 nightmare and quote she said quote she 775 00:32:59,880 --> 00:32:56,560 was a bit coffee but within two weeks 776 00:33:03,120 --> 00:32:59,890 the cough became very scary a horror 777 00:33:05,850 --> 00:33:03,130 movie turning blue going floppy in my 778 00:33:08,250 --> 00:33:05,860 hands running to hospital and quote she 779 00:33:10,140 --> 00:33:08,260 said quote she ended up in intensive 780 00:33:11,940 --> 00:33:10,150 care with a baby there just coughs and 781 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:11,950 coughs and coughs and it's so hard to 782 00:33:18,210 --> 00:33:15,490 watch your tiny little thing go red then 783 00:33:20,460 --> 00:33:18,220 they go blue and sometimes they go black 784 00:33:22,860 --> 00:33:20,470 then for a moment you think they're dead 785 00:33:24,660 --> 00:33:22,870 in your hands they flop a lot of 786 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:24,670 suffering for a tiny thing you love so 787 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:27,130 much I was offered the injection in week 788 00:33:34,620 --> 00:33:30,850 28 being the healthy fit organic woman 789 00:33:37,830 --> 00:33:34,630 that I am I said quote leave me alone I 790 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:37,840 don't need this crap then quote quote I 791 00:33:43,830 --> 00:33:41,050 got over it very quick it was not it was 792 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:43,840 nothing for me but she is into week four 793 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:46,570 and every hour I have to stay here and 794 00:33:52,890 --> 00:33:49,210 watch her going blue watch her go blue 795 00:33:54,980 --> 00:33:52,900 watch her cry and give her oxygen she is 796 00:33:56,990 --> 00:33:54,990 my only child and if I could turn 797 00:33:59,740 --> 00:33:57,000 time I would have protected myself 798 00:34:02,090 --> 00:33:59,750 that's my message end quote she said 799 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:02,100 Australia is in the grip of a whooping 800 00:34:10,700 --> 00:34:06,570 cough epidemic with a 20 2516 cases 801 00:34:13,970 --> 00:34:10,710 recorded nationally last year and 5561 802 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:13,980 cases recorded so far this year in April 803 00:34:18,109 --> 00:34:16,290 last year free whooping cough boosters 804 00:34:20,690 --> 00:34:18,119 were introduced throughout Australia for 805 00:34:23,330 --> 00:34:20,700 pregnant women after UK studies proved 806 00:34:26,090 --> 00:34:23,340 the Boosters cut infant deaths from 807 00:34:29,090 --> 00:34:26,100 whooping cough by ninety percent in that 808 00:34:34,550 --> 00:34:29,100 report was by Jane Hansen as published 809 00:34:38,149 --> 00:34:34,560 at wwwcom now here is the audio from the 810 00:34:46,620 --> 00:34:38,159 lady in question produced by Gold Coast 811 00:34:51,750 --> 00:34:49,790 my name is kami and this is Eva and 812 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:51,760 unfortunately we've been in hospital for 813 00:34:58,710 --> 00:34:55,930 the last three weeks yeah if I was 814 00:35:03,690 --> 00:34:58,720 diagnosed with whooping cough pertussis 815 00:35:07,170 --> 00:35:03,700 and yeah it's been a nightmare I have 816 00:35:11,790 --> 00:35:07,180 been a very healthy pregnant woman no 817 00:35:14,070 --> 00:35:11,800 problems no complications worked worked 818 00:35:17,100 --> 00:35:14,080 out went to the gym every day eight very 819 00:35:19,740 --> 00:35:17,110 healthy had no dis efficiencies had a 820 00:35:21,180 --> 00:35:19,750 natural birth and some power through the 821 00:35:23,430 --> 00:35:21,190 process of the last two weeks of my 822 00:35:25,830 --> 00:35:23,440 pregnancy I've managed to get whooping 823 00:35:29,430 --> 00:35:25,840 cough Donna why and harms and I managed 824 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:29,440 to get it I didn't know I've given birth 825 00:35:34,470 --> 00:35:32,410 I was coughing a bit I wanted to check 826 00:35:35,670 --> 00:35:34,480 myself just because of Allah I'm 827 00:35:38,190 --> 00:35:35,680 coughing for a few days it's a bit 828 00:35:40,050 --> 00:35:38,200 annoying especially when you know when 829 00:35:41,790 --> 00:35:40,060 when you're coughing in your tummy is a 830 00:35:44,580 --> 00:35:41,800 bit sore from giving birth it's kind of 831 00:35:48,270 --> 00:35:44,590 feels a bit uncomfortable I quickly 832 00:35:51,990 --> 00:35:48,280 found out that I have Pettis and well 833 00:35:53,970 --> 00:35:52,000 I've given it to her yeah the first few 834 00:35:56,430 --> 00:35:53,980 days were like okay better cough What's 835 00:35:58,940 --> 00:35:56,440 everyone is on about she just be coffee 836 00:36:02,700 --> 00:35:58,950 a bit nasally we'll get through it 837 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:02,710 within two weeks the cough became pretty 838 00:36:06,810 --> 00:36:04,930 scary horror movie coughing to the point 839 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:06,820 of going blue flopping in my hands come 840 00:36:11,490 --> 00:36:09,130 breathe running into hospital she's then 841 00:36:13,410 --> 00:36:11,500 better the center home today later back 842 00:36:14,850 --> 00:36:13,420 into hospital again a nice letter she's 843 00:36:17,310 --> 00:36:14,860 got another apnea where she's not 844 00:36:19,890 --> 00:36:17,320 breathing for three minutes and he just 845 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:19,900 ended up in upstairs here in the 846 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:22,450 hospital in Nam what do you call 847 00:36:27,750 --> 00:36:25,810 intensive care with just a baby that 848 00:36:29,910 --> 00:36:27,760 coughs and coughs and coughs and it's 849 00:36:32,370 --> 00:36:29,920 just so hard to watch your little tiny 850 00:36:35,550 --> 00:36:32,380 little thing and they go read and from 851 00:36:37,770 --> 00:36:35,560 red / blue and sometimes they go big 852 00:36:41,100 --> 00:36:37,780 liking for a moment they think they dead 853 00:36:43,740 --> 00:36:41,110 in your hands they flop a lot of 854 00:36:46,350 --> 00:36:43,750 suffering for a little tiny little cute 855 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:46,360 thing that you love so much I was 856 00:36:52,170 --> 00:36:49,570 offered the injection in wing 28 on 857 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:52,180 being the healthy feet organic woman 858 00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:54,130 that I am I said leave me alone I don't 859 00:36:58,800 --> 00:36:56,410 need a tiny describe 860 00:37:00,750 --> 00:36:58,810 and even me the bulletproof lady that's 861 00:37:05,580 --> 00:37:00,760 never been to a doctor travel the world 862 00:37:07,830 --> 00:37:05,590 and felt healthy got got the whooping 863 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:07,840 cough I got over it very quick it was 864 00:37:14,900 --> 00:37:10,810 nothing for me but she is into week 4 865 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:14,910 and here every hour I've gotta stay here 866 00:37:20,220 --> 00:37:18,010 watch your going blue give oxygen watch 867 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:20,230 a cry water having a hard time eating 868 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:23,650 she's my only child in my first and if I 869 00:37:30,740 --> 00:37:25,210 could turn back time I would have fun 870 00:37:36,290 --> 00:37:33,260 and that was by the Gold Coast Hospital 871 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:36,300 and Health Services 2016 communications 872 00:37:48,650 --> 00:37:39,090 and engagement unit for more information 873 00:37:51,260 --> 00:37:48,660 visit www.fcn / Gold Coast health savvy 874 00:37:54,710 --> 00:37:51,270 but oh so predictably the 875 00:37:57,980 --> 00:37:54,720 anti-vaccination brigade sometimes known 876 00:38:01,070 --> 00:37:57,990 as the flying monkeys have cast serious 877 00:38:03,020 --> 00:38:01,080 doubt on this story now we're talking 878 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:03,030 about the hardcore anti-vaxxers here the 879 00:38:08,570 --> 00:38:04,410 ones who live in a world where 880 00:38:11,810 --> 00:38:08,580 vaccination is a ploy by the one world 881 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:11,820 government to poison people vaccination 882 00:38:19,550 --> 00:38:15,890 has zero success rate and is a giant con 883 00:38:22,030 --> 00:38:19,560 to either bolster the coffers of big 884 00:38:25,610 --> 00:38:22,040 pharmaceutical or to control it all with 885 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:25,620 naughty drugs or chemicals or whatever 886 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:27,810 tin foil hat excuse they come up with 887 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:30,210 here are some comments by the flying 888 00:38:35,420 --> 00:38:33,210 monkeys Gold Coast health of Australia 889 00:38:38,390 --> 00:38:35,430 posted a video of Cormac avital holding 890 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:38,400 her daughter Eva who is said to be 891 00:38:43,430 --> 00:38:41,010 hospitalized with pertussis the awkward 892 00:38:46,820 --> 00:38:43,440 video almost sounds as though it is a 893 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:46,830 hostage video as avatar expresses its 894 00:38:51,710 --> 00:38:48,930 quote regret end quote over not having 895 00:38:55,850 --> 00:38:51,720 had the pertussis vaccine while pregnant 896 00:38:58,070 --> 00:38:55,860 it even has been edited with music as 897 00:39:00,680 --> 00:38:58,080 well as the hospital's pre-roll 898 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:00,690 advertisement eva is said to be released 899 00:39:05,750 --> 00:39:03,090 from the hospital this week which isn't 900 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:05,760 mentioned in the video other items 901 00:39:10,780 --> 00:39:08,850 remain unclear avital had pertussis 902 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:10,790 seemingly while pregnant and remained 903 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:14,490 contagious nearly 12 weeks later if she 904 00:39:19,790 --> 00:39:17,330 was tested for it and that's not known 905 00:39:23,570 --> 00:39:19,800 did the hospital take any precautions 906 00:39:26,180 --> 00:39:23,580 when Eva was born was tests performed on 907 00:39:28,940 --> 00:39:26,190 comet again seeing that she had this 908 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:28,950 previous history of pertussis did she 909 00:39:34,430 --> 00:39:31,530 breastfeed to help boost Eva's immune 910 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:34,440 system and from the website open source 911 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:37,290 truth calm it's interesting how many of 912 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:39,090 these loony websites were the tin foil 913 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:44,010 hats use the word truth an unidentified 914 00:39:47,070 --> 00:39:44,770 mother 915 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:47,080 holds a motionless baby with pertussis 916 00:39:53,490 --> 00:39:50,050 allegedly because she did not vaccinate 917 00:39:55,980 --> 00:39:53,500 law pregnant with a vaccine not tested 918 00:39:58,200 --> 00:39:55,990 or approved for safety and associated 919 00:40:01,380 --> 00:39:58,210 with serious birth defects and other 920 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:01,390 adverse events oh and which affords 921 00:40:06,060 --> 00:40:03,970 precious little protection the video 922 00:40:08,850 --> 00:40:06,070 appears to be on the government website 923 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:08,860 notice anything wrong here and if anyone 924 00:40:13,230 --> 00:40:11,170 watching the video sees the baby take a 925 00:40:16,710 --> 00:40:13,240 breath let us know in the comments 926 00:40:20,610 --> 00:40:16,720 section say no to vaccine mandates it's 927 00:40:23,010 --> 00:40:20,620 it's reminds me of a traitor or a 928 00:40:26,910 --> 00:40:23,020 turncoat or a what's the word I'm 929 00:40:30,150 --> 00:40:26,920 looking for apostate defector in any 930 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:30,160 cult or religion they are treated most 931 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:33,130 harshly and this woman is now regarded 932 00:40:39,590 --> 00:40:36,130 as being a traitor to the to the 933 00:40:41,730 --> 00:40:39,600 religion that to the cult the mindset of 934 00:40:46,070 --> 00:40:41,740 anti-vaccination which I said before is 935 00:40:48,420 --> 00:40:46,080 all entwined in an unholy mess with 936 00:40:49,890 --> 00:40:48,430 basically conspiracy theories and 937 00:40:51,690 --> 00:40:49,900 they're trying to control you and you 938 00:40:53,670 --> 00:40:51,700 can't trust the government and Western 939 00:40:55,500 --> 00:40:53,680 scientific medicine is basically a con 940 00:40:58,200 --> 00:40:55,510 because if you eat healthy things and 941 00:41:01,200 --> 00:40:58,210 where you've heard it all before so hats 942 00:41:04,260 --> 00:41:01,210 off to this brave young mum who could 943 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:04,270 see what she did was wrong but now he's 944 00:41:10,260 --> 00:41:07,210 trying to make amends and the enemies of 945 00:41:25,900 --> 00:41:10,270 reason as Isaac Asimov called them are 946 00:41:31,390 --> 00:41:29,450 hi this is Heidi Robertson from the 947 00:41:34,270 --> 00:41:31,400 Northern Rivers vaccination supporters 948 00:41:36,890 --> 00:41:34,280 we are a group of concerned citizens 949 00:41:39,470 --> 00:41:36,900 dedicated to promoting good science and 950 00:41:42,530 --> 00:41:39,480 common sense in our region the far north 951 00:41:44,300 --> 00:41:42,540 coast of New South Wales this area are 952 00:41:47,330 --> 00:41:44,310 famous for its natural beauty and 953 00:41:50,930 --> 00:41:47,340 relaxed lifestyle also has the lowest 954 00:41:53,030 --> 00:41:50,940 rates of vaccination in Australia we are 955 00:41:55,460 --> 00:41:53,040 out to change that by challenging the 956 00:41:57,140 --> 00:41:55,470 myths and misinformation and by 957 00:42:00,440 --> 00:41:57,150 providing good evidence based 958 00:42:02,300 --> 00:42:00,450 information to the community we'd love 959 00:42:05,930 --> 00:42:02,310 for you no matter where you are in the 960 00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:05,940 world to join our fight please visit our 961 00:42:16,340 --> 00:42:13,530 webpage at ww nrvs info we also have a 962 00:42:20,660 --> 00:42:16,350 link there to our facebook page tweet us 963 00:42:23,270 --> 00:42:20,670 at in our fax supporters that's vix and 964 00:42:25,910 --> 00:42:23,280 check us out on Wikipedia by searching 965 00:42:43,540 --> 00:42:25,920 for Northern Rivers vaccination 966 00:42:49,460 --> 00:42:46,160 thank you for listening to the skeptic 967 00:42:52,430 --> 00:42:49,470 zone and as somebody requested during 968 00:43:04,590 --> 00:42:52,440 the week wrote to me here is the sound 969 00:43:14,190 --> 00:43:11,040 oh if that doesn't give you nice warm 970 00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:14,200 feelings I don't know what will coming 971 00:43:16,650 --> 00:43:15,370 up on next week's show some more 972 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:16,660 interviews from Maine I'd who was 973 00:43:20,850 --> 00:43:18,370 running around with these microphones at 974 00:43:23,010 --> 00:43:20,860 the recent Australian skeptics sydney 975 00:43:25,580 --> 00:43:23,020 dinner meeting that's where he 976 00:43:28,500 --> 00:43:25,590 interviewed our guest today dr. Nick 977 00:43:30,980 --> 00:43:28,510 matzke maynards going to be chatting to 978 00:43:33,780 --> 00:43:30,990 dr. Mel Thomas and cancer researcher 979 00:43:35,610 --> 00:43:33,790 Cassandra Perryman from Brisbane from 980 00:43:38,610 --> 00:43:35,620 the Brisbane skeptics and from 981 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:38,620 Australian skeptics Alethea Dean he 982 00:43:42,300 --> 00:43:40,330 might remember Alethea Dean she's been 983 00:43:43,980 --> 00:43:42,310 on the show a few times she joined 984 00:43:46,380 --> 00:43:43,990 Maynard and I a couple of years back 985 00:43:49,980 --> 00:43:46,390 when we went on a ghost hunt it goes to 986 00:43:51,890 --> 00:43:49,990 her did we find any ghosts mm-hmm so for 987 00:43:54,060 --> 00:43:51,900 this week this is Richard Saunders 988 00:43:56,610 --> 00:43:54,070 running downstairs again to hear more 989 00:44:02,850 --> 00:43:56,620 kittens purring signing off from Sydney 990 00:44:05,370 --> 00:44:02,860 Australia you've been listening to the 991 00:44:09,210 --> 00:44:05,380 skeptics own podcast visit our website 992 00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:09,220 at WCA pegs on TV for contacts and 993 00:44:15,660 --> 00:44:12,490 archive of all episodes since 2008 and 994 00:44:17,700 --> 00:44:15,670 our online store please support the 995 00:44:21,060 --> 00:44:17,710 skeptic zone by following us on twitter 996 00:44:24,570 --> 00:44:21,070 at skeptic zone liking us on facebook 997 00:44:26,100 --> 00:44:24,580 and leaving a review on iTunes you can 998 00:44:29,910 --> 00:44:26,110 also show your support by subscribing 999 00:44:32,970 --> 00:44:29,920 via paypal for as little as 99 cents a 1000 00:44:34,590 --> 00:44:32,980 week the skeptic zone is an independent 1001 00:44:37,020 --> 00:44:34,600 production the views and opinions 1002 00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:37,030 expressed on the skeptic zone and not 1003 00:44:58,160 --> 00:44:39,130 necessarily those of Australian skeptics 1004 00:44:58,170 --> 00:45:03,830 ok 1005 00:45:10,940 --> 00:45:08,810 shopping Oh Stan bet you do that so if 1006 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:10,950 you give me a okay boy girl seconds to 1007 00:45:14,330 --> 00:45:23,040 oh ok 1008 00:45:26,980 --> 00:45:25,510 hi cap reporter main out here and we're 1009 00:45:29,050 --> 00:45:26,990 going to take you into a room full of 1010 00:45:32,859 --> 00:45:29,060 skeptics there and ask some questions to 1011 00:45:35,380 --> 00:45:32,869 a member of the alleged show a real real 1012 00:45:36,670 --> 00:45:35,390 want to be kind of an elite kind of guy 1013 00:45:39,130 --> 00:45:36,680 Richard Saunders who's going to be 1014 00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:39,140 appearing at Paracon fairly shortly 1015 00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:40,850 let's go ask him some deep questions 1016 00:45:46,630 --> 00:45:43,490 about the million-dollar challenge come 1017 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:46,640 on come someone here we got a room full 1018 00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:48,410 of skeptics they're all skeptical 1019 00:45:51,220 --> 00:45:49,850 they're skeptical about the food they're 1020 00:45:52,660 --> 00:45:51,230 skeptical about the one they're 1021 00:45:53,980 --> 00:45:52,670 skeptical about the car park they're 1022 00:45:57,640 --> 00:45:53,990 skeptical about every bloody thing here 1023 00:45:59,380 --> 00:45:57,650 we go now Mary doing he's over here and 1024 00:46:01,090 --> 00:45:59,390 what would a skeptic been doing haha the 1025 00:46:02,530 --> 00:46:01,100 Old Yeller trick of spoon bending 1026 00:46:04,690 --> 00:46:02,540 Richard Saunders I believe you're going 1027 00:46:06,700 --> 00:46:04,700 to be at Paragon fairly shortly talking 1028 00:46:09,099 --> 00:46:06,710 about the alleged million-dollar alleged 1029 00:46:11,140 --> 00:46:09,109 challenge uh oh you remember the shadowy 1030 00:46:13,930 --> 00:46:11,150 elite I have you got Illuminati 1031 00:46:15,340 --> 00:46:13,940 underpants on what's all about that up 1032 00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:15,350 what's that Taiwan's think this guy oh 1033 00:46:18,310 --> 00:46:17,090 come on I believe this it's just a whole 1034 00:46:19,510 --> 00:46:18,320 challenge thing if there's no million 1035 00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:19,520 dollars is it there was no million 1036 00:46:22,599 --> 00:46:20,810 dollars come on don't you run about that 1037 00:46:24,910 --> 00:46:22,609 you run away from me don't you don't you 1038 00:46:27,310 --> 00:46:24,920 don't you run away from you should look 1039 00:46:30,940 --> 00:46:27,320 at that wait look there we go there we 1040 00:46:32,770 --> 00:46:30,950 go leaving in shame the alleged Richard 1041 00:46:33,849 --> 00:46:32,780 Saunders and he's alleged million dollar